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2014-07-01 14:27:29

#21

BenFenner

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I always like these guy's videos. I was a bit surprised at the results as well back when I saw this. The difference was so large with no air flow helping. Decent test methodology as usual.

Last edited by BenFenner on 2014-07-01 at 21-34-46.

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2014-07-01 18:05:44

#22

unijabnx2000 Online/offline status of unijabnx2000 is unknown

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I wish they would of done a few tests in the sun light as well to see how that affected the results.

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2014-07-01 18:47:21

#23

1fastser

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Originally Posted by unijabnx2000

I wish they would of done a few tests in the sun light as well to see how that affected the results.

...and in Texas in the middle of July!

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2014-07-01 21:57:23

#24

zeneffect

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nobody wants to go to Texas.... at any time of the year.

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2014-07-02 05:54:09

#25

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i'll be painting both my new rad and fmic black! my old fmic was already black, but just sayin.. lol

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2014-07-02 11:31:00

#26

se200

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I don't think ambient temp has any effect on the intercooler painted or not, if it's hot it's hot(meaning the intercooler will match ambient temp). As for testing the intercooler in the sun???? I have a huge intercooler in my b13 and 80% of the day the sun does not hit it. I think these results are as accurate as we need without 45 more added variables.

Last edited by se200 on 2014-07-02 at 11-32-06.

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2014-07-02 21:38:03

#27

ApexSilverBeast Online/offline status of ApexSilverBeast is unknown

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Originally Posted by zeneffect

nobody wants to go to Texas.... at any time of the year.

We are fine with that

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2014-07-10 06:46:54

#28

unijabnx2000 Online/offline status of unijabnx2000 is unknown

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And the rebuttal video....

The reply on MCM by the "electronic stig"

Originally Posted by mauswerkz

Just a quick note regarding the Engineering Explained video. We came to basically the same conclusion as he did. His video concentrates on how we "missed the point" and how intercoolers don't cool through radiation. This is true, they primarily cool through convection, as he says. In fact, we proved this as well in the video. See my points below.

Painting the intercooler black improved its effectiveness due to radiation only (I stated this specifically here: Black Intercoolers Mythbusted - YouTube. This is in agreement with, not in contrast to, the Engineering Explained video's main argument.)

Painting the intercooler black did not significantly effect the performance of the intercooler during normal use. We saw a reduced differential of 3 degrees C with the black paint and modest airflow. The observed reduction in the temperature differential could have also been influenced by changes in the test environment such as a rise in ambient temperature, change in significant air movement (the garage door was open the whole time), or even changes in the mains line voltage causing variation in the heat output of the hairdryer. My point is, 3 degrees is likely within the experimental uncertainty anyway, so we consider it to be insignificant. Even if it is a result of insulating properties of the paint, it would be even less pronounced at actual driving speeds.

Yes, black paint will absorb radiation better as well, so don't mount your intercooler where it will be exposed to direct sunlight (Like I said here: Black Intercoolers Mythbusted - YouTube). Further, there is discussion elsewhere in this thread about painting different surfaces strategically depending on whether it's has a significant source of radiant heat in close proximity to it.

You do not always have airflow over your intercooler. Anyone who has experienced heat soak in their car while sitting in traffic on a hot day can tell you what happens when your car sits running in still air. Thermofans do not run constantly, nor are they always positioned in a location which will cause them to draw air through the intercooler (such as side and top-mount intercoolers). When these fans are not running, radiation is the primary method of heat transfer.

Yes, there are other methods to cool your intercooler prior to a drag race. Improving its emissivity is probably the cheapest and easiest of them.

There have been several calls for dyno testing to validate our results. Dyno testing requires a powerful fan directed in to the front of the car to keep the engine cool during testing. Our results (and indeed, the theory) shows that with this airflow, no noticeable improvement will be seen. Again, our results show that the main benefit of the black paint is in preventing heat soak.

I think the Engineering Explained video has missed/ignored the parts of the episode (which I linked to above) where I make the exact same points he does.

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2014-07-10 12:35:26

#29

se200

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I have logged both painted and unpainted intercooler air intake temps and the difference is not noticeable. So many other factors come into play that the insulation of paint is not relevant. Plus the 3% difference in temps from the two test could be wrong. The intercooler may have been heat soaked due to multiple tests and due to it being later in the day and increased ambient temps.
My buddy and I have almost the same setup, same turbo, same manifold, same intercooler and almost the intercooler piping. The difference between our setups is his is a det in a b14 running aem and mine is a vet in a b13 running nismotronic. We both used the same thermocouple to calibrate our intake air temp sensors. Now I have my hot side piping and intercooler painted black and his is not. We have compared intake air temps and they are almost the same on the same boost levels, his tends to run a bit higher under load.
The real change comes with boost levels, he is now running 18-19psi and I'm running 10psi. His intake air temps are much higher then mine now as axpected. For those of you thinking painting your intercooler will cost you hp I would say worry less about the intercooler color and more on system efficiency.

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2014-07-10 13:39:39

#30

DaveM

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Originally Posted by unijabnx2000

And the rebuttal video....

The reply on MCM by the "electronic stig"

Originally Posted by mauswerkz
Just a quick note regarding the Engineering Explained video. We came to basically the same conclusion as he did. His video concentrates on how we "missed the point" and how intercoolers don't cool through radiation. This is true, they primarily cool through convection, as he says. In fact, we proved this as well in the video. See my points below.

Painting the intercooler black improved its effectiveness due to radiation only (I stated this specifically here: Black Intercoolers Mythbusted - YouTube. This is in agreement with, not in contrast to, the Engineering Explained video's main argument.)

Painting the intercooler black did not significantly effect the performance of the intercooler during normal use. We saw a reduced differential of 3 degrees C with the black paint and modest airflow. The observed reduction in the temperature differential could have also been influenced by changes in the test environment such as a rise in ambient temperature, change in significant air movement (the garage door was open the whole time), or even changes in the mains line voltage causing variation in the heat output of the hairdryer. My point is, 3 degrees is likely within the experimental uncertainty anyway, so we consider it to be insignificant. Even if it is a result of insulating properties of the paint, it would be even less pronounced at actual driving speeds.

Yes, black paint will absorb radiation better as well, so don't mount your intercooler where it will be exposed to direct sunlight (Like I said here: Black Intercoolers Mythbusted - YouTube). Further, there is discussion elsewhere in this thread about painting different surfaces strategically depending on whether it's has a significant source of radiant heat in close proximity to it.

You do not always have airflow over your intercooler. Anyone who has experienced heat soak in their car while sitting in traffic on a hot day can tell you what happens when your car sits running in still air. Thermofans do not run constantly, nor are they always positioned in a location which will cause them to draw air through the intercooler (such as side and top-mount intercoolers). When these fans are not running, radiation is the primary method of heat transfer.

Yes, there are other methods to cool your intercooler prior to a drag race. Improving its emissivity is probably the cheapest and easiest of them.

There have been several calls for dyno testing to validate our results. Dyno testing requires a powerful fan directed in to the front of the car to keep the engine cool during testing. Our results (and indeed, the theory) shows that with this airflow, no noticeable improvement will be seen. Again, our results show that the main benefit of the black paint is in preventing heat soak.

I think the Engineering Explained video has missed/ignored the parts of the episode (which I linked to above) where I make the exact same points he does.

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