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Thread: B13 rear suspension re-assembly problem. Alignment all wrong. (Broadband only!)

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Posts: 81-90 of 97
2008-08-14 03:23:52
Originally Posted by Keo
not sure if you explained this or not, how did you try to adjust it yourself?
The alignment? Well, there's the toe and the camber really that I'm worried about. The toe more than anything, but they are both pretty bad. I feel when I get the toe right the camber will fall into place by the design of the suspension.

I'm trying right now to adjust the toe by eye. I know this is a tough thing to do and can't get me to a proper alignment, but it should get me close enough. Even if I can't get it anywhere near close, I can at least tell when I have toe in and when I have toe out. Presumably the adjustment allowed by the factory in the rear for toe can give both toe in and toe out. Nothing can be done in my case to get toe out. Look at this picture and you'll see why I'm so confident that I've got a toe in problem.

Keep the questions coming.
2008-08-14 03:35:25
Originally Posted by 91grayDET
A decent alignment should be able to be picked up by the naked eye?
Yes, I believe so. Maybe I'm being completely naïve here in this confidence in my ability but I'm pretty sure the human eye can pick out the smallest of imperfections (fractions of a degree) in the angle of a picture frame on the wall. The eye can be tricked, but is generally a great tool to use when used well. I know exactly what my alignment looks like on the front of my car, as well as the rear. I remember what the rear was like clearly before setting out on this adventure. I know the rear is no where near that now.

Originally Posted by 91grayDET
You have to keep in mind performing an alignment is a precise measurement.
I'm aware of this. Maybe not enough. Maybe I'm fooling myself. I've always managed to get the front "good enough" by eye.

Originally Posted by 91grayDET
When i was aligning my car , just a slight turn of the adjustment bolt would send the numbers go way off in a crazy direction. it went from .38* to something crazy like .24* on a single turn.
Single turn of what? A single turn of the toe adjustment bolt is a whole lot. Regardless, that's probably because your car is behaving the way it should. I bet mine is responding just as much, it's just so far off to one side it never gets to where it should be regardless.

Originally Posted by 91grayDET
If you don't have the numbers in front of you it's more difficult to adjust the right way.
I'd love some numbers, but right now I'm not in the position to take it to an alignment shop and mess around. =(

Originally Posted by 91grayDET
I tried the eyeball method before with no success, on an alignment machine it cuts the time down to prolly a 1/4.
So I could get a good alignment if I spend 4 times longer than you would on the machine? You're saying it's possible?

Originally Posted by 91grayDET
But either way that still doesn't solve your bent bolt problem.
I think I've solved the bent bolt and bent toe adjustment guide problem. Time will tell.
2008-08-14 03:36:17
Originally Posted by 91grayDET
I think you should compare notes. Raise both vehicles up by the rear and compare part for part. Bolt for bolt.
If I get the time and my brother can lend me his car for a bit I'll see what I can do. I don't think I'll find anything of use, but it can't hurt. I'll see what I can do.
2008-08-14 11:30:32
Originally Posted by BenFenner
If I get the time and my brother can lend me his car for a bit I'll see what I can do. I don't think I'll find anything of use, but it can't hurt. I'll see what I can do.

I'm curious to know what the problem with that rear suspension is. I know how frusterating it has to be to not be able to fix a problem.

When you do find the problem please post.
2008-09-09 04:22:08
any updates?... taken it to alingment yet?... they did the whole back suspension on my car today and noticed nothin differen from your pics... only that my tires aint got negative camber LOL... mm posibility from my bad explanation trying to tranaslate to the mechanic he suggested you should chec your shocks... they did the holes in mine a little bigger for alignment purposes and it worked fine...
2008-09-09 11:16:24
I haven't gotten an alignment yet. Pretty sure there's nothing they can do about it. I agree the holes in the shocks could be made bigger to help fix some or all of the camber. I guess I just felt that the car should be able to go back to the way it was without any "hacking".

I've put this problem on the back burner for now so I can concentrate on other things.

If this weren't my problem and I were on the outside looking at the facts my conclusion would be that I must have messed something up while taking apart the suspension for the first time. That's when things went wrong and they couldn't be fixed by installing the factory parts. Also other people run the ES bushings without nearly the trouble I had, so I don't think I can blame them for all or even most of it.

I promise any updates will be posted here.
2008-09-15 11:37:47
First post updated with initial disassembly pics.
2008-09-16 02:17:27
My guess is that it all went wrong when you overtightened those bolts the first time around. When you did that it forced the links into a funky geometry because it tightened down against the angled mating surface on the knuckle. I am pretty sure that angled surface is there so the suspension can cycle properly, it gives enough room for the links to angle slightly as the suspension compresses and rebounds. I feel that when you tightened it down hardcore (coupled with the unforgiving hardness of new ES bushings) there was no room for the suspension (links) to move properly. Unfortunately I think that this caused the lower links to tweak the mounting points on the chassis. If it bent the hardened steel 5/8" diameter bolts that go through the knuckle imagine what it did to the mounting points of the links. Simple reinforced stamped steel suspension mounting points are no match for the leverage offered by the links if the force is applied in the improper direction (a slightly skewed angle). I could be wrong but I am just trying to be logical. Get under the car and take some precise measurements and compare it to another B13.
2009-04-22 15:06:53
I've got an update to this that I'll be posting.

I've been vindicated in one aspect (been called a bad mechanic by Andreas because it appears I can't even swap a rear suspension properly).
I'm going to look really bad in another way.
ES rear bushings aren't nearly as bad as I thought.

I'll have pics soon.
2009-04-22 15:14:47
Did you use chassis parts from the wrong car?
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